New Book for Oct 23rd

Hey Fellas,

I apologize for my absence last session (Oct. 2nd). Many of you were wondering about the book that I was going to pick. I have decided, upon the strong recommendation of a former seminary classmate I bumped into, to pick The Shack by William P. Young. Now, I understand that this is a book that some have avoided and that there are "two camps" on the internet that have reviewed it and, from what I can tell, one camp absolutely reviles it and the other has been profoundly inspired by it. There are plenty of copies of it at the Book Bin and I am told that if you go to the official website of the book, that you can get a free copy. Apparently there was a business man who was so moved by the book that he put up a bunch of money to help those who are unable to afford the book, to receive it. Oh yeah, I would also like to bring the discussion back to Porter's Pub. I look forward to seeing you all.

Christians Lynch Obama

I just caught a news article that was seriously disappointing but unfortunately, not very shocking. Upon the campus of our beloved bastion of Christian love and enlightened education, George Fox U., an effigy of Barak Obama was found hanging from a tree with a sign attached reading "Act Six Reject". Act Six is a scholarship program whose goal is to increase minority attendance at northwest Christian colleges. The reason it's not that shocking is that I've been around the Evangelical movement long enough to recognize the deep and twisted connection to ultra right wing conservatism that has taken over the collective mind of Evangelical Christianity.

Folks like Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell and James Dobson have defined politics for Christians for a over 2 decades and one of their primary motivators has been fear. How many times did I wake up to Dobson's schrill cries over the alarm clock radio begging and cajoling me to call my senator before the "Homosexual Agenda" took over our schools and destroyed America's families? I don't know, I finally turned him off about the time of the Iraq war when the president Dobson was in bed with didn't seem that Christian to me anymore. I must admit I started to feel better about life when I wasn't waking up to the-sky-is-falling-propaganda machine that is Focus on the Family.

The other day I walked into a meeting with a men's leadership team from church and somebody had recognized Donald Miller giving the Benediction at the DNC and suddenly it was like I was in the interrogation room, the spotlight shining in my eyes, men in black firing questions- "What exactly is your connection to this Donald Miller? Are you a Democrat Mr. McElravy? Are you?" I was under the gun, I felt the pressure, I was starting to sweat and I just blurted out "I'm still registered as a Republican!" McCarthy was easier on defendants than these guys. But my statement seemed to keep the wolves at bay, for now. One of them muttered, "That Obama scares me." And suddenly I realized, that's what it was, fear. These guys were geniunely afraid. I said, "Obama's just a man. What's so scary about him?" Blank stare, awkward silence, subject changed. No discussion of policy, no banter about who seems to be the most Christlike of the two candidates, and no talk of what Christian faith brings to the politcal discussion. Just a group of church leaders afraid of a Democrat. Sad.

Fear is one of those things that has it's uses. If your in situation where your life is in danger fear kicks the brain into fight or flight mode. In this state fear sometimes gives us super-human strength to do what might normaly be impossible. The adrenaline rushes through the body and gives us the ability to lift cars of people in a wreck (or so I've heard). You know what I mean. But the thing is, it also blocks some of our ability to asses situations realisticly. We don't necasarily see things as they are. Emotions can get the best of us. I fear that fear has been used against us and the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Sorry, that was supposed to be funny, but maybe there's some truth to it.

So the question is, can we (Christians) get passed the fear mongering and engage in real political discussion? Not emotional I'm-right-your-wrong-and-that's-that yelling. Our world faces serious problems and the status quo seems to have marginalized the Christian voice into lockstep with a politcal party who uses guys like Dobson and crew to scare us into their agenda. I'm not suggesting Christians should belong to one party or the other or not. It's bigger than that. I think this book will take us into a deeper discussion of what impact Christians could have politcally and in a much more constructive way than currently is happenning.

Looking forward to the discussion.

For your viewing enjoyment

GOD'S POLITICS

Okay my friends, I am sorry it took me so long to get this going. I know that I said we would read NT Wright a couple of weeks ago and now I'm changing my mind and am going with Jim Wallis' book God's Politics in honor of the political season we find ourselves in. I've read about half of the book and find Wallis' ideas challenging and refreshing. I don't necessarily agree with everything he stands for but this book has given me some hope for the influence Christians can have politically, something beyond just voting Republican because that's what all good Christians do, or simply voting based on a couple of hot button issues. But rather to engage the system like the prophets of old and stand up for justice and truth, to face down the oppressors regardless of party. This book has given me the freedom to go ahead and "talk politics and religion" and let it be okay that there are other sides to the issues, that the truth is it isn't the evil liberals vs. the righteous conservatives. Anyway, it should make for some good conversations.

Since everyone will be getting a late start on the book I'd like to focus our first discussion on Parts I and II, Intro through pg.84. I'll update this blog with some discussions points as we get closer to Thursday.

Mere Christianity Chapters 1-2 for May 22nd

"Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis: The book was adapted from a 1943 BBC radio lecture broadcast while Lewis was at Oxford (during World War II). I haven't searched to find the archive of the radio broadcast because iTunes had audible.com version and I had the Lewis anthology but it would be interesting to contrast the radio broadcast with the audio book.

Mere Christianity presents a case for Truth and popular objections to Christianity (Christian Apologetics). I've been working with other men lately to discover "core biblical truths" and the Lewis contributed to my thinking this past week in the first two chapters by distilling what he called "Moral Law" (Rule about Right and Wrong)commonly known to all human beings which include the suggestion that we should strive toward "fairness" and "unselfishness". He shares his thoughts in direct contrast to the "laws of Nature" presented in mathematics and science of the time.

In the first two chapters he seems to aim at defining "Christianity" as something beyond "Goodness" and lands at the fundamental teachings of the Christian religion. It seems that his intended audience was intellectuals of the 1940s whom some of which understood the jargon of formal Christian Theology. Important to the context was WWII and Hitler who was doing wrong, my almost everyone's standard, even non-religious persons.

Next up; Mere Christianity - Atonement (Chapter 3+)

New Venue???

Gentlemen, 

It was decided, at the last meeting, that, given the hostility shown us by the staff at Thompson's, we should try a new venue.  It was suggested that Schroeder's Guest House be tried.  So, with that said, I called and checked on the hours of operation at Schroeder's and they are only open until 8 o'clock.  So Schroeder's is out.  So here's my question:

Should we give Thompson's one more shot or should we try somewhere else?  If we try somewhere else, does anybody have any suggestions? Personally, I feel that they (Thompson's) just had a bad night and I am willing to forgive and forget and give 'em another go.

Also, if you missed the last meeting it was determined that the second installment of Paulo Coehlo's, The Alchemist would be conducted this coming Thursday, May 8th. 

Finally, Drew, the facilitator of the next tome, has chosen C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity so if you don't have this classic yet, you have plenty of time to obtain it before May 22nd.

  

BTW: I have no idea what the picture has to do with this post, but I liked it and thought I'd post it.

Inner Reflection

Quite as the Forest
Steadfast as the Mountain
Relentless as Fire

Velvet Elvis - The second half of the "movement"

Below are the summary of my highlights from Rob Bell “Velvet Elvis” the second half of the “movements.” Kevin is sick and may not make it Thursday to facilitate the discussion.

Movement Five Dust – Torah “Way” = Books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy memorized beginning at the age of six. Schooling included “House of the Book” (Memorization) to “House of Learning” (More memorizing with some understanding) then on to “House of Study” (Disciple-ing by Rabbi’s who may at one point call you their disciple).

Movement Six New – Sin, guilt, and shame but don’t work with them to heal. He provides thoughts about death, rebirth and becoming a “new creation.” God is retelling each of our stories in Jesus. We may be living out of sync with how God created us to live. For Jesus, heaven and hell were present realities.

Movement Seven Good – Are pollution and litter are spiritual issues? Did early Christians subvert the dominant power structures of their world? Should Christians picket, boycott and complain about how bad the world is? Why blame the dark for being dark? It is far more helpful to ask why the light isn’t as bright as it could be. The church is at its best when it is underground, subversive and counter cultural. Rest in the fact that the bible ends with God coming here!

Shag Carpet Elvis

Graceland

Gentlemen--

It seems that after our last meeting there was some confusion regarding how much of Velvet Elvis we should read for this week's meeting. Since I'm facilitating, I'll make a judgement call and say we should read through Movement Four, which is about half of the book. Hope you guys are all enjoying it.

Kevin

Ode to Beer

Of all my favorite things to do,

The utmost is to have a brew.

My love grows for my foamy friend,

with each thirst-quenching elbow bend.

Beer's so frosty, smooth, and cold------
It's paradise----Pure liquid gold

Yes beer means many things to me

that's all for now -------I gotta Pee

March 13th Meeting

I am looking forward to seeing you all this Thursday evening as we conclude our foray into the mind of Chesterton.  This meeting will have, at least for those of us who consider the Emerald Isle to be the mother country, special significance as this is the meeting that is the nearest to St. Patrick's day.  Chesterton, in the last chapter, gives deference to the Irish.  Chesterton says of the Irish:

 "The Irish peasants are the only poor men in these islands who have forced their masters to disgorge.  These people, whom we call priest-ridden, are the only Britons who will not be squire-ridden."  

Even if you are more partial to the Scots or take umbrage with Chesterton's attention paid to the shamrock vice the thistle (and you know who you are) you'll have to admit that the Irish have overcome a lot of adversity.  With that said, see you all Thursday evening at 6:30 at Thompson's.

Erin go Bragh!  

Great Article

Thanks John for putting the link in the left-hand side of the blog to the Wittenburg Door. Our Friends at the Wittenburg Door make light of a theme that has been a part of our discussions; the Evangelical Fundamentalist.  I think that you all will enjoy it.  See the link below for the article:

http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/american-fundamentalists

The next book selected is Rob Bell's, "Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith".  This was Kevin's pick and although he will formally announce this at the next meeting, I wanted to let folks know ahead of time so that we can begin our search.

Chesterton Part 1

I'm convinced now, more than ever, that the Truth (intersection between knowledge and my understanding) will not exist in organizations. Organizations hold missions and statements of belief that represent their motivation-driven outcomes. That is not to say that I believe that all organization is bad or that organizations cannot become smarter or more aligned with the Truth.

Chesterton presents in Orthodoxy - The Ethics of Elfland the arguement that democracy and libralism are the same thing. This challenged my thinking this week about organizational intent and specifically the intention of state agencies that act as regulatory arms of the legislature. Organizations and agencies sometimes present false dogmata and dicotomies that do not fully represent issues they were intended to serve (Practice isn't always what was intended in the Law). I find this interesting when considering concepts of managment and the first priority being getting the right people on the bus (collins, 2001) Inherant in the DNA of a democratic nation should be a suspicion about what is intended and how it is carried out. When you suspect conspiracy, don't rule out incompetence, and for heavens sake be educated and aware (Ohler, 2000).

Looking forward to the next Chesterton conversation and the "ahas" that time will bring.

Posted on Kevin's behalf

Fun With Fred Phelps

Hi guys, 

Anyone interested in finding out more about Fred Phelps, the "God Hates Fags" reverend from America's heartland, can easily find way too much of him on the internet.  His Wikipedia entry contains pretty much everything you'd ever want to know about his somewhat shady past and his twisted theology. It's immensely entertaining.  A search for his name in YouTube will provide a plethora of interviews, not only with Fred himself, but with the members of his modest congregation, all of whom seem to be related to him.  One of the first videos that comes up is an interview between a female follwer and Sean Hannity, which immediately spirals into complete hysteria.  I never thought I'd see the day that I'd be rooting for Sean in a "debate"!  There are also a lot of homemade parodies that people have submitted about Mr. Phelps, who, upon hearing of Jerry Falwell's death, threatened to picket his funeral because he considered Jerry a "fag-enabler" who was "soft on gays" (?!).

Generally, most gay people find Fred's hate speech to be the rantings of a publicity-hungry lunatic who is too goofy to be taken seriously and obviously has serious doubts about his own sexuality.  But what really got Fred into hot water was when he and his family-cum-congregation decided to picket the funeral services of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, claiming that their untimely deaths were a curse from God because America fell in love with Will & Grace, Brokeback Mountain, and Ellen DeGenerous.  Suddenly soccer moms and construction workers were unified with leather daddies and drag queens in their utter disbelief at what this gentleman would do in order to secure his 15 minutes of fame.

Fortunately, Fred's opinions are too radical for most mainstream Evangelicals, who instead of wasting all that time hating gay poeople would rather ignore them and hope they'll stay on their side of town.  The problem for them is that the gay side of town is a myth.  The gay people they know sit in the cubicle next to theirs at work, ring up their groceries, sit next to them in church, and join them at the pub on Thursday nights (okay, so they probably also cut their hair and coordinate their weddings).  The time is right for Christ-followers who are secure in their own faith and their own sexuality to show God's love to this segment of their society, because too often, by their silence, they have reinforced good ol' Fred's sentiments.

~Kevin

The Insanity of Christianity

"Exactly what does breed insanity is reason. Poets do not go mad; but chess players do. Mathematicians go mad, and cashiers; but creative artists very seldom." (Orthodoxy, p.9)

Connor and I have had some conversations about the similarities between the life stages that psychology has identified and the stages of spiritual growth. A little child needs to be told exactly what to do. Yes, eat your food. No, don't touch the hot stove. Similar to the potter/clay analogy. God tells the spiritualy immature person exactly what to do because that is what the person needs. But just as a child becomes an adolescent then a teen and then an adult the way the parent interacts with that person must change in order for the relationship to be healthy. In an unhealthy parent/child relationship you would see a parent treating their adult offspring as if they are still little children and adults acting like little children especially when they are operating in their family systems. My point is this: I feel like a teenager in the spiritual sense. I am going through this rebellious stage where I am moving away from the sprituality of my parents and developing my own. There is literal anger within me about what modern Christianity is and I think this a good thing. Not that I want to remain stuck here, being angry at church and modern evangelical Christianity. That would be unhealthy and counterproductive. But I think God has brought me to this stage so that I can become an adult (spiritually). I want to move on from being the clay in his hands to being a friend of God, even his son. Scripture compares the highest form of relationship with God to a marriage. I can't fathom that but I trust that it is good.

One of my criticisms of the Christianity of modernism is this attempt to reduce relationship with God to simple formulas.

If you say the sinners prayer, go to a Bible-believing church, tell others about your conversion then you will go to heaven. (Or something like that).

It feels to me as though the modern church has tried to apply the scientific method to God in an attempt to know Him. We create if/then statements that might work well in a thesis paper but don't pan out in real life. There was a time when I truly needed to believe in Creationism. More than believe, I needed to know that it was true. I think this is in some way a result of the if/then thinking of modernism. If the Bible says God created the cosmos in 6 days then it has to be literaly true or it upsets the whole foundation of the faith. This is insanity. Chess players think in terms of if/then. Mathematicians think in terms of if/then and it seems to me maybe theologians have been doing it too. The Scriptures use all kinds of imagery, overstatement, and symbolism. What if God did not create the cosmos in 6 literal days? What if it was just a way for God to communicate to ancient peoples that he was before all this, outside of it, greater than it and creator of it? What if He actually used evolution to create man and animals? What if He did it some other way that man has yet to recognize? Is He no less God? Of course not.

There is so much mystery to God. We could apply Systematic Theology to the Scriptures over and over (and we have) and still come away lacking. In fact, what this approach to God and Scipture has created is what we now call the Fundamentalist. The Fundamentalist may in fact be no fundamentalist at all in relation to what Jesus described as the fundamentals: Love God and love your neighbors. Again, the insanity of Christianity. If the fundamentals of the faith are love God and neighbor then why is the message of the Fundamentalist: We hate homosexuals? Did Jesus say "I have come that you may believe in a literal 6 day creation, or adhere to a strict doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy or believe in a pre-trib rapture?" No, he came to offer us life. He invites into a life with him.

Chesterton says on p. 11: A flippant person has asked why we say, "As mad as a hatter." A more flippant person might answer that a hatter is indeed mad because he has to measure the human head.

Is it possible that modern Christians have spent too much time trying to "measure" God and too little simply living with Him, walking with Him, enjoying Him?

Have you ever been in an argument over some theological thing or trying to "defend" your faith and your voice starts to shake and you get red and hot? That's happened to me and I think it's because of my insanity. I was buying the notion that God is going to make logical sense if I can just figure Him out and it will be obvious to everyone. But what was obvious was that I was insane!

"They see a chess-board white on black, and if the universe is paved with it, it is still white on black. Like the lunatic, they cannot alter their standpoint; they cannot make a mental effort and suddenly see it black on white." (p.12)

The Fundamentalist can't see God and the universe any other way than white on black. Think about what this results in. It applies across all belief systems. This kind of thinking creates terrorists, crusaders, inquisitors, doctrine Nazis, real Nazis, suicide bombers etc...

One of my favorite lines in the first half of this book is on p.13, "The sane man knows that he has a touch of the beast, a touch of the devil, a touch of the saint, a touch of the citizen. Nay, the really sane man knows he has a touch of the madman."

G.K., I hope your right 'cause I can see all of that in myself.

Buechner

Yesterday Erin (my bride) read this excerpt from Frederick Buechner to me. I thought it was worth passing along. I'd be curious to hear what you all think of what he says. He seems to answer the question John asked me about how a "christian" and a "non-christian" may be closer then it might appear.

"Some think of a Christian as one who necessarily believes certain things. That Jesus was the son of God, say. Or that Mary was a virgin. Or that the Pope is infallible. Or that all other religions are all wrong. Some think of a Christian as one who necessarily does certain things. Such as going to church. Getting baptized. Giving up liquor and tobacco. Reading the Bible. Doing a good deed a day. Some think of a Christian as just a Nice Guy. Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me"(John 14:6). He didn't say that any particular ethic, doctrine, or religion was the way, the truth, and the life. He said that he was. He didn't say that it was by believing or doing anything in particular that you could "come to the Father." He said that it was only by him--by living, participating in, being caught up by, the way of life that he embodied, that was his way. Thus it is possible to be on Christ's way and with his mark upon you without ever having heard of Christ, and for that reason to be on your way to God though maybe you don't even believe in God. A Christian is one who is on the way, though not necessarily very far along it, and who has at least some dim and half-baked idea of whom to thank. A Christian isn't necessarily any nicer than anybody else. Just better informed."

Next Meeting

Reservations have been made! The next meeting will be at the same place, Thompson's McMenamins, at 6:30 PM on Thursday 28th, February. I made reservations for 10 people so hopefully we will get a bigger table as we were a little too intimate for 8 guys last time, so, I can't imagine how cramped it will be for 10. I will also get this information out to others who have not joined this forum yet.

"Get up. Stand up. . . don't give up the fight."

Sorry for the Bob Marley reference in the title line, but it is useful for my post.

With quotes like:

"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living can go against it." and; "The act of Defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice." I wonder if Chesterton became charged/recharged whenever he took a stand on something. Often times, I feel a bit frightened to take a stand for something out of fear that I will offend. So I don't. Then I become a dead thing floating with the stream. I may even feign impartiality just to get out of tackling a contentious topic. Here too, Chesterton goes on the attack: "Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance." I neither want to be seen as dead thing floating drifting with the stream nor do I want to be seen as being ignorant. Perhaps in taking a stand for a thing, provided it is the right thing, one can become find the thrill that Chesterton lived out as he championed orthodoxy? Take a stand for the wrong thing and Chesterton here too responds: "Fallacies do not cease being fallacies because the become fashion." Thoughts?

Intro to the Dinklings Blog

Men,

Sorry about naming our group the dinklings. If anyone has a better name that would be fine. I just needed something to get this blog going.

So...have at it. Let's hear what you've got to say about Chesterton. I look forward to an ongoing discussion with you guys as we gear up for another night at Thompson's.